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Marriage is love, continued - Tkil [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
Tkil

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Marriage is love, continued [Feb. 16th, 2004|01:35 pm]
Tkil
[mood |touchedtouched]
[music |Sunwheel - Heavenly Voices 2 - Walk Upon The Grass]

It’s unlikely that anyone reading my journal is particularly conservative regarding personal freedoms. On the off chance there might be some who are against or unsure about allowing gay marriage...

Take a look through this slideshow. Look at the love and joy in their faces. Can you still say that their love is evil? That it should be circumscribed, limited, repressed, forbidden, denied? I hope not.

If there is any hope for our society, it is only through acceptance and love. Through openness, not through closure and exclusion. Through learning, not through fear of differences.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: blueeyedcutie
2004-02-16 10:19 pm (UTC)

<3 <3 <3

It really makes me sad to have to say that I am from the only city (Houston) in that slideshow that denied those couples a marriage license. That really makes me sad. But I am very happy for the couples that were able to gain a marriage license. What is sad is that it should have just been given to them in the first place without all of the protesting. <3

oh, and those Dragon dudes make me angry. People can be so ignorant.
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[User Picture]From: evelynne
2004-02-16 11:11 pm (UTC)

Re: <3 <3 <3

The Dragon dudes are ridiculous and pathetic, and I laugh at them.

The slide show was fantastic -- a couple of the photos brought tears to my eyes. Such joy and love in their faces. I still can't comprehend why anyone would want to deny this to people. They haven't got a single rational argument against it -- it's just pure stupid prejudice.
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[User Picture]From: weilok
2004-02-16 11:30 pm (UTC)
Yeah after 3 failed marriages and the 4th is working I say do what you feel is right cause you never know when it will really work out. 8 yrs. and still going strong to a man who is 18 yrs younger than me.
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[User Picture]From: lordsauron
2004-02-17 12:25 am (UTC)
I am against gay marriages because of religious reasons. I believe that marriage has spiritual part to it. I've grown up with these beliefs all my life. Yes, they do seem happy, but I don't approve of them marrying.

This is me.
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[User Picture]From: tkil
2004-02-17 12:41 am (UTC)

Re: Religious Reasons

I am against gay marriages because of religious reasons.

What do you think of my analysis in my previous entry?

I don’t have a problem with defining marriage religiously; I only ask that people who support that position pay the consequences, and that means that it is purely a religious ceremony, and it should not be recognized by the state any more than, say, being a church elder. How would you feel if states other than Utah started passing laws that said they would not recognize Mormon marriages? How about states in the south saying they will not recognize interracial marriages?

Any other route is asking the government to support one particular religious view over others. Do you feel more strongly about gay marriage than you do about the first amendment?

Look at the Boy Scouts: they won their fight to discriminate as they saw fit. In doing so, however, they lost their status as a public organization, and lost the support of the public schools and the government. I think this was completely fair. (And, even as an Eagle Scout, I feel the Boy Scouts are completely wrong to discriminate.)

You can’t have it both ways.
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[User Picture]From: lordsauron
2004-02-17 02:45 am (UTC)

Re: Religious Reasons

Your previous analysis has logic behind it. And as a Cathloic myself, I can't argue that bible verse. Christianty teaches about God's love through Jesus and wants all of humankind to follow that teaching. Grandma emphasized that point.

Jon & Ken from KFI radio had a segment on this topic asking about "doomsday scenario." When gays marry legally. They asked what hell will America go in. Try as hard as some callers make, they couldn't sell to them...or me.

Well, it all comes down to that I have some...demons to wrestle out.
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[User Picture]From: tkil
2004-02-17 05:24 am (UTC)

Re: Religious Reasons

Your previous analysis has logic behind it.

Thanks; I appreciate your reading and commenting on it.

The bible verse that is so abused in this context is Leviticus. There is indeed a verse there that condemns homosexuality (Lev 20:13); but other verses in that book describe the kosher diet (how many of the protesting Christians eat pork, contrary to Lev 11:6-7?); as well as condemning adulterers to death (Lev 20:10). Any of them remarried? Hm.

This paper has some nice coverage of the rampant inconsistencies surrounding this book and its application to modern reality:

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/religious_studies/GBC/leviticus.htm

It is this picking and choosing of which parts of the bible they observe that is so aggravating. I can’t find any reason other than selfishiness and power grubbing. Every movement needs an enemy: it used to be the blacks, it used to be the communists ... these days, it’s the homosexuals. As a focus of hatred and fear, which in turn provides a unity and a sense of superiority to the would-be oppressors.

Well, it all comes down to that I have some...demons to wrestle out.

I’m sorry if my response woke your demons. It was unintentional; and while I am sure you will be a stronger person on the far side of that struggle, growing is always painful. Good luck.

And if it would help to talk to someone largely outside your normal routine, my offer of meeting for lunch or a longer conversation still stands.
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From: jinglechelle
2004-02-18 02:51 am (UTC)
A lesbian friend of ours made what I thought was an excellent point this weekend. She said that we won't legalize gay marriage for the same reason they didn't want to teach black slaves to read. If they can't read they're animals and you don't have to give them rights.. once they read, they're human beings and you have to rethink things. In application to the homosexual community - she said that Christians want to believe gays have no morals. They point to the fact that these folks don't have monogamous marital relationships... and once they are allowed to marry then you have to admit they might actually *be* moral .. like those lesbians in SF who have been together 50 years.. and that doesn't sit well.

I thought this was an interesting viewpoint!
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[User Picture]From: sweetemmjay
2004-02-19 12:47 am (UTC)
Hi
I saw that you have me listed as a friend. What made you stumble upon my lj?
=)
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[User Picture]From: tkil
2004-02-19 06:30 am (UTC)

Re: LJ Stumbling

What made you stumble upon my lj?

OkCupid, of all things. :)

A friend of mine (nirik on OkCupid, same here but he actually updates through nirikrss) saw you in his matches, and we both thought your profile was interesting. (He probably found you in world matches, but there was something about potentially moving to Denver?)

Being somewhat libertarian (yes, lower-case “L”), I’m particularly interested in how your obvious love of marijuana interacts with your lawyer-ness. (Well, your proto-lawyer-ness, at least until sometime after next Thursday, yes? Good luck on the bar!)

And I enjoyed reading your posts, so I went ahead and friended you. Sorry if it seemed presumptuous!
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[User Picture]From: sweetemmjay
2004-02-19 06:35 am (UTC)

Re: LJ Stumbling

ooh no worries :)
naw, my views on marajuana wont change.
I finished law school in 2002, I'm already licensed. I'm just not licensed in VT yet.
=)
Nice to meet you.
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